Recap - NetApp Cloud Twitterview

When learning about new technology and related business models, dialogues are much more useful than monologues.  Social Media avenues offer useful tools for vendors to educate the market.  Twitter (and I suppose Facebook’s FriendFeed) have become excellent vehicles for engaging in a dialogue with your audience.  These tools are also more transparent than some corporate propaganda blogs which attempt to censor healthy debate after posting provocative FUD.

Twitter’s conversational nature is also more conducive to humorous sarcasm. My new favorite tag is @sfoskett’s #selftweetthursday :)

First time for everything

George Crump and I facilitated a brief discussion yesterday via a first for me, NetApp and him – a Twitterview.  Many old & new followers viewed the discussion and a few also actively joined it.  Along the way, I cut my teeth on what the emerging protocol is for engaging your twitter audience and fielding multiple questions in real time. :)

I welcome everyone’s feedback via comments below on how this went and recommendations (such as topics, logistics, promotions, etc…) for what we can do even better next time!

Full Transcript

Compiled conversations available at Search.Twitter.Com:

Storageswiss: http://search.twitter.com/search?q=storageswiss

valb00: http://search.twitter.com/search?q=valb00

sfoskett: http://search.twitter.com/search?q=sfoskett

                                                                                   

Conversation between Val and George:

·         storageswiss: Welcome to a twitterview with @valb00 of NetApp on NetApp's Cloud Announcement. @valb00 are you ready?

·         valb00: @storageswiss Hi George! I'm here & ready to go :)

·         storageswiss: Hi Val...So what surprised about this announcement was Ontap 8 and Cloud initiative being rolled together. Why is this more cloud than Ontap

·         valb00: @storageswiss good opener. 3part answer coming up...

·         valb00: @storageswiss DOT8 +PAMII &DS4243 r merely the products. Cloud SP's need proven best practices, svr+net interop, Enterprise need 1st step

·         valb00: @storageswiss .. all of those elements comprised our Cloud Launch announcement. 22 Customers, SP's, ISV/IHV's & GSI's validated our approach

·         valb00: @storageswiss FYI @editingwhiz covers it well: http://bit.ly/Cw2rv

·         storageswiss: @valb00 yes. I thought that might be tough to get into 140 chars :)

·         storageswiss: @valb00 sounds fair. before we dive deep into the clouds. What are some of the highlights of ontap 8 that will appeal to non-cloud customers

·         valb00: @storageswiss DOT8 is an ideal foundation for Cloud solutions, but as adv storage technology, its by no means restricted to it ...

·         valb00: @storageswiss DOT8 was originally aimed at horiz shared infrastructure for large DC's. VMware influenced that heavility with their uptake...

·         valb00: @storageswiss DOT8 remains an excellent SAN/NAS/iSCSI solution for Oracle, MS Excnahge/SQL/SharePoint, HYPER-V, MED-V, SAP, JDE, etc!

·         storageswiss: @valb00 Gotcha, there is a couple of vmware handy stuff in the release. How would you describe data motion vs. storage vmotion

·         valb00: @storageswiss higher-perf and 64bit aggrs may be the most immediate DOT8 improvement visible to NetApp customers. Shades of Snow Leopard :)

·         storageswiss: @valb00 Snow Leopard is already to high on trends :)

·         valb00: @storageswiss it's not really X vs. Y. NDM is integrated with vSphere. Basically, VMotion is best for individual VM moves, whereas ...

·         valb00: @storageswiss ... NetApp Data Motion (NDM) is best for bulk VM moves (1000's or more)

·         storageswiss: @valb00 got it. Lots to like for NTAP customer in 8 then.

·         valb00: @storageswiss meant "VMware Storage Motion is best for individual VM virt disk moves" below :)

·         storageswiss: @valb00 Moving on to the cloud. So at a high level why does ntap feel this is a cloud enabler?

·         valb00: @storageswiss DOT8 has always been about flexibility at scale. Today we call that Elastic Infrastructure, but we've had a 6yr head start :)

·         valb00: @storageswiss Cloud SP's need elasticity with efficiency at scale and hi degree of automation, plus metering tools for chargeback

·         storageswiss: @valb00 so NTAP's role in Cloud is to be the storage back end that potential provider might us?

·         valb00: DOT8 plus symbolically related Provisioning Mgr 4.0 & Protection Mgr 4.0 in NDDC delivers on that

·         valb00: @storageswiss Doh! "symbolically" should be "symbiotically" :)

·         valb00: @storageswiss yes, we want to be the enabler of choice for private or public SP's offering XaaS with enterprise-level SLA's

·         storageswiss: @valb00 and if I recall from our briefing you have some services to help SP's to get rolling. Can you describe your experiences offering?

·         valb00: @storageswiss Yeah, we call it a "fast start workshop". It's basically a 2-4 day assessment of the biz drivers behind a priv or pub cloud..

·         valb00: @storageswiss after "fast start workshop" completes, we'll have a simple NDDC recipe tailored for Cloud infrastructure success

·         storageswiss: @valb00 I know you have some outside questions queueing up. I'm OK hitting those on the fly to. You may want to repeat the ?'s

·         storageswiss: @valb00 Feel like comparing the NTAP solution to EMC Atmos?

·         valb00: @storageswiss I've outlined that strategy here: http://bit.ly/Onf7L 

·         storageswiss: @valb00 Interesting that you extended your current platform as opposed to come out with something specific to the cloud. Pros/Cons?

·         valb00: FYI everyone - I'll keep taking Q's till the top of the hour (noon PDT / 3pm EDT) then wrap it up to move onto my next glamorous task,OK? :)

·         valb00: @storageswiss Pro's are obviously investment protection for customers and chance to show off Spinnaker technology in a biz relevant context

·         storageswiss: @valb00 Nothing more glamourous than twitter. Pros/Cons of extending current platform vs. cloud specific solution?

·         valb00: @storageswiss Con's are that it's not shiny new HW, so some people don't give it the attention we feel it deserves :)

·         storageswiss: @valb00 Know you have to jump soon, let's table the cloud for a second and move on to my other favorite SSD...

·         storageswiss: @valb00 Many people may have missed PAM 1.0 can you hit that and what has changed in the upgrade?

·         valb00: @storageswiss PAM II is revolutionary approach 2 stor tiering. Removes tier 0&1. Using flash as cache lets u effectively use SATA everywhere

·         valb00: @storageswiss PAM II is a quantum leap improvement over PAM I due to larger size at much lower effective cost

·         valb00: @storageswiss PAM II is dedupe-aware, meaning a VDI farm sees it as 40TB of cache (10:1 dedupe ratio) where only 4TB raw cache exists. Cool!

·         storageswiss: @valb00 Big claim. So are you declaring fiber drives dead?

·         storageswiss: Just wondering because storage swiss already has http://bit.ly/rhyDk 

·         valb00: FYI all - wrapping up with @storageswiss' last Q now...

·         valb00: @storageswiss yes, we don't see much of a future for FC drives, or even high-rpm SAS drives. The future is flash (often as cache) + SATA!

·         storageswiss: @valb00 There is something we can agree on. Let's call it a win, have a great day Val and thanks for being part of our twitterview.

·         valb00: I'll post a transcript + final thoughts to my blog later tonight! http://blogs.netapp.com/exposed/

·         storageswiss: Look for a post tonight or tomorrow on our conversation with NetApp and a briefing report on Storage Switzerland http://bit.ly/94AtU

Conversation between Val, George and Stephen Foskett:

·         sfoskett: @valb00 Can you describe the kind of cloud that would be supported by OT8? It's not an S3/Nirvanix kind of thing. What would it look like?

·         valb00: @sfoskett Hi Steve I'll get to questions not from @storageswiss in about 20 mins, OK?

·         sfoskett: @valb00 @storageswiss Why do the interview on twitter if you're not taking questions? I guess I'll leave you two to it...

·         valb00: @sfoskett it would be chaos if we did this in round-table format. As per my blog last night - we're trying to keep some order at 1st, ...

·         valb00: @sfoskett ... then opening it up for other questions in a bit. Pls be patient, as I'd love to address your Q's too!

·         valb00: @sfoskett @storageswiss - OK Steve, let me get to your twitter Q's now :)

·         valb00: @sfoskett the kind of Cloud DOT8 will support is the same kind DOT7G has been supporting for many years, namely ...

·         valb00: @sfoskett IaaS at T-Systems and Telstra, PaaS at Oracle & SAP, SaaS at Yahoo!, PhotoBucket, and STaaS at EDS/Connected, etc...

·         valb00: @sfoskett DOT8 will simply help do it with more scale and granularity - ultimately driving down provider costs over time

·         sfoskett: @valb00 What are the primary business benefits of the type of cloud you describe? What cost savings will the average customer see?

·         valb00: @sfoskett NTAP-powered Cloud providers already see more CapEx & OpEx Storage Efficiency than traditional SAN or DAS - and especially speed

·         valb00: @sfoskett speed not only in terms of performance - but in terms of provisioning and de-commissioning storage resources for subscribers

·         sfoskett: @valb00 Can you talk a little about the two modes of OnTap 8? What features are included in each?

·         sfoskett: @valb00 STaaS = Storage as a service? How do they use hypervisors for storage?

·         valb00: @sfoskett Yes. STaaS = Storage as a service. SP's often need secure multi-tenancy, and hypervisors help with addl security layers @ host

·         valb00: @sfoskett DOT8's 7mode and cluster-mode is investment protection feature for simpler customer adoption...

·         valb00: @sfoskett remember pain of SunOS --> Solaris. MS learned some lessons with Win95/98/Me --> NT. Apple did it best with OS 9 --> OSX

·         valb00: @sfoskett we're trying to learn from Sun, MS & Apple in how to seamlessly migrate a giant install base with as little disruption as possible

·         sfoskett: @valb00 What's the ratio of savings? 10% or 1000%?

·         valb00: @sfoskett ratio of savings usually depends on each SP's goals and requirements - but averages to 50% ... which of course we guarantee :)

·         valb00: @storageswiss in a nutshell we don't think Cloud == a product or two like Atmos/VMX, we'd rather help our partners than compete with them

·         sfoskett: @valb00 Tell me more about this guarantee - are you referring to the dedupe guarantee?

·         valb00: @sfoskett yes. dedupe guarantee is focused on hypervisors - which are the Pillar of most IaaS Clouds, and some PaaS, SaaS, STaaS ones too!

·         sfoskett: @valb00 I respect that. It's got to be incredibly difficult to integrate and maintain functionality. My hat is off to NetApp for the work!

Conversation between Val, George and EMC Followers:

·         storageswiss: @valb00 Feel like comparing the NTAP solution to EMC Atmos?

·         Storagezilla: @storageswiss This would be the Jerry Springer portion of the program would it George?

·         davegraham: @Storagezilla @storageswiss oh freakin' please.

·         davegraham: @Storagezilla @storageswiss that's sarcasm, btw.

·         storageswiss: @Storagezilla Yeah, we have some surprise guests in the back. I have to wait until @foskett finishes with his 37 ?'s though (joking steve)

·         valb00 @Storagezilla depends on how the "audience" behaves! Where's security? :)

·         storageswiss: @davegraham The world needs more sarcasm :)

·         davegraham: @storageswiss and a nice fedora. your question was a bit loaded re: Atmos. we can chat about that later. ;)

·         storageswiss: @davegraham re:Atmos... was I talking about Atmos? :) more sarcasm... I can't stop myself. Would like to talk more about it...

Other Outside Replies:

·         BasRaayman: @valb00 how could it be less horizontal then when using VMware? ESX farms tend to be as horizontal as it goes storage wise.

·         Emulex: Don't miss the ongoing interview via Twitter with @storageswiss and @valb00. Interesting use of the new medium: http://bit.ly/LQ9s8 

Comments

[Larry]

Well said Val! This event was further proof of the contrast in openness and transparency between NetApp and EMC.

Just have a look at the cowardly comments by Chuck within the confines of his blog about how he hasn't yet "educated" you on Cloud.

In Twitter terms, what a #pompous #ass

[Chuck Hollis]

Val, Larry and other NetApp folks

I get the feeling that you somehow believe that EMC employees censor comments on their blogs.

Well, we kind of leave that up to each employee to decide, since everyone has their own blog. We've got over 100+ bloggers now, so I really don't know who does what anymore.

We do try and encourage people to have open discussions, not to insult or mock others, and keep it professional. Good advice for everyone, BTW.

Personally, I've only censored one comment in my career, and it came from Val, and I thought I wouldn't be doing anyone any good by sharing it.

I thought I was doing Val a favor at the time. Maybe I was wrong and I just should have published it and let the chips fall where they may. Oh well.

I was quite serious that -- based on what I've observed -- Val is missing a few important bits on the architectural and economic concepts associated with clouds.

I'm not the only one who has arrived at that conclusion, either.

And, frankly speaking, there's a long list of people in the industry who could help him out in the industry.

Just trying to help, guys!

Have fun at VMworld.

-- Chuck

[Val Bercovici]

Hello Chuck,

I'm sorry to read your comment above, because based on a sample poll of just a few NetApp employees and partners, your claim to have only censored one comment ever is simply a bald faced lie.

Wonder what kind of credibility that leaves you with regarding your self-proclaimed Cloud expertise?

I know you're feeling the heat to respond to the facts that NetApp:

- powers more Cloud-based transactions than EMC,
- has more Cloud customers in production than EMC,
- has more Cloud partnerships than EMC, and
- has a frustratingly close engineering alliance with VMware considering EMC's ownership, plus
- just shipped the foundation for a ground-breaking set of Cloud optimized storage solutions that tower over EMC's scattered product line,

But you'll have to resort to spreading your propaganda within the EMC walled Social Media garden, becuase I'll have none of it over here!

Oh - and as usual - thanks for the "help". It is useful in more ways than you can imagine :)

[FlyGuy]

Chuck,

Why do you think condescending comments on a competitor's blog will do anything to further your cause?

From what I can tell, NetApp's Cloud Strategy is different than EMC's, but in no way inferior. In fact, some pundits I've spoken with think it's more farsighted. And you can't beat the long and impressive set of partners and customers they trotted out the other day.

My advice is to drop your knee-jerk NetApp bashing and stick to writing thoughtful blogs about EMC instead of NetApp.

[Chuck Hollis]

Wow!

I guess I'm not welcome here, am I?

That's OK, you guys are always welcome over at my blog. Come on, come all!

I am starting to realize that NetApp (or at least Val) has chosen an extremely broad definition of "cloud" that includes service providers, web sites, outsourcers, etc. -- I guess all sorts of things that come over the internet.

I don't see an inherent problem with that, since there's scant agreement in the marketplace as to what's "cloud" and what's "not cloud".

By comparison, EMC has a more narrow concept of "cloud" that focuses on what's different, rather than what's the same as before.

NetApp (or Val?) appears to have chosen a definition that suits their purpose, which seem to be primarily marketing-mindshare-oriented at present.

If that was your goal, you're absolutely doing the right thing.

Looking deeper, I don't think NetApp has yet to articulate any sort of coherent cloud strategy other than stating (a) you think it's important (good!), and (b) you already have a lot of products that are being used by web sites, outsourcers, hosting providers, service providers, etc. that some people might consider "cloud".

By comparison, if someone came to me and suggested that EMC do a "cloud strategy" launch based on a few partner quotes in a press release, overly creative statistics and a few expected business-as-usual product announcements, I'd entirely reject the notion as very ill-advised.

I'd tell them that the goal wasn't to simply repackage existing stuff in a shiny new wrapper, but talk about how things were changing, and what we were doing about it.

Just goes to show we're really different companies at the core.

Val's personal rants about blog censorship are entirely baseless, not to mention entirely irrelevant if you think about it.

If you'd like some concrete proof, I'd invite you to go read some of the more colorful comments from the NetApp club over on my blog, including more than a few masqueraders.

There's quite a few to choose from.

On the next point, I'm happy to hear that NetApp (and HP and IBM and Dell and Cisco and Sun and Oracle and Microsoft and everyone else) has a "scarily close relationship with VMware engineering".

That's by explicit design and intent, so it's very good to hear that.

On a final note, let's keep it civil and somewhat polite out there, yes?

And keep the focus on the customers?

Thanks!

-- Chuck

[Thomas]

Chuck, you really are a riot!

You want to be "civil" and "focus on customers", yet you come here to repeatedly insult Val, question his credibility and authority, then intentionally ignore the elaborate (and rather inclusive) cloud strategy Val articulated on behalf of NetApp (and picked up by many media outlets) only last week!

The schizophrenic tone of your NetApp-bashing comments all over the web makes me begin to actually feel sorry for you in the same way I did for Britney Spears once I realized she was clinically deranged and not just crazy.

Every single shallow attempt you make to try and discredit NetApp only backfires and raises their legitimacy in my eyes. If that's your intention, please continue and I'll get out the popcorn to watch your iTrain Wreck from a front row seat!

[Joey]

Britney? Oh no, something much different.

I think Chuck is the Storage Terminator, because he is maniacally focused on endlessly bashing his competitors (especially threatening ones like NetApp) and...

He is seemingly immune to criticism. No matter how many times he is reminded by all corners of the web, blogosphere, twitterverse, etc... he purposefully carries on bashing away, bashing away, bashing away.

Just like the Terminator - he is unstoppable, and if I may say - incorrigible! :)

[Accel Partners]

The juvenile vendor-bashing is beneath a discussion of this importance.

The Cloud is equal parts threat and opportunity to vendors like EMC & NetApp. It's hard to measure success at the early market stage, but by necessity these companies have different strategies, so comparing them is pointless.

EMC needs to leverage their relatively broader non-storage product portfolio, which gives them a head start, but at the same time a more narrow market opportunity because most public Cloud operators have already decided on their hypervisor strategy and are certainly not purchasing big-iron storage, content management or legacy backup software. Atmos remains largely unproven, but is nevertheless helping EMC learn a lot about object storage requirements.

OTOH - NetApp can repurpose their Data ONTAP swiss-army knife for the Cloud because it's already proven in the valley for massively scalable storage. Yahoo!, Facebook, Apple, Oracle, Cisco and others have tons of their stuff.

The fact that NetApp has already secured Cloud wins at Joyent, Rackspace and Terremark domestically, as well as Siemens, Tata and T-Systems internationally, is significant and indicates to me they already have more real Cloud momentum than EMC.

The question remains whether NetApp can adapt their strict gross and operating-margin business model to address the storage pricing pressure which blade server vendors are pushing via internal dumb storage. It would seem IBM could play an important role in NetApp's Cloud ambitions. Given the existing relationship between the two, perhaps that's already in the cards?